Okay I've got to see this post. Where's the link?

For me, this post was also the breaking point at which I took her off my Reading List.

I read a lot of the stuff you said around the time Fail '09 began, none of it was unfair or mean...she banned you? Frikken A! Did I miss something?

I love you, you're so naughty.

You are so bad you are my new heroine.
(moondancerdrake is my always heroine, of course.)

People are already sending me messages about being mean to the poor nice writer who "only means well". I've said all I can say about that here, I'm glad to know not evertone is being blinded by the glitter of good intentions.

Oh, and your icon makes me all giggly :)

Agreed.

Exactly.

Maybe that’s why I don’t get how folks think I misread something in her words. It was pretty clear to me she lied, admitted she lied, a slop in the face to many of us who in all of this respected that she accepted (or we thought she had) the criticism and just had the fault of not calling her supporter on their attacks. Now its like got this “sike I fooled you!” tone, like the girl in school that pretend to be your friend when in truth she’s really laughing at you behind your back with the rest of her real friends.

Please show me where she said the people on the other side are "evil". I really feel you're completely distorting what she said. She never said she was silencing anyone, nor does she have such power. She *asked* for a cease-fire. We can agree or disagree about the merits of that idea, but she's not the Big Bad Bear silencing POCs.

Let see if I can explain this a different way to clarify my view at least. I said she suggested, not said “evil”. Really no difference then the general comments she made about her friends being the alleged oppressors. Bottom line in all of this is she continues to imply criticism of her work was based on ignorance (and I quote “It's my fault because I accepted criticism of my book that I knew to be untrue, that I knew to be based on a shallow and partial reading”) yet tells us to not talk about any of this any more. If she didn’t want to talk about it anymore, and wasn’t trying to get a last shot in, why insult her critic one last time. Seems like a cheap shot to me.

I never said she had the power to silence anyone, in fact I am saying I will not be silenced, but she is politely telling us to shut yup because she doesn’t want to hear about race conversation anymore. As POV we really don’t have that option, its part of our lives, our children’s life, touches the communities we live in every day.

It would’ve been one thing for her to say she wanted to take a break from the conversation. That I totally could understand and respect. She says both sides said things that were wrong, yet I never once saw her friends out on some of the really. Awful things they said…I seem to remember one Emma wasn’t it) who admitted she was unfair to E Bear’s critic, and apologize, which I respected very much.

I respected E Bear at first, in the beginning, but little by little my little that respect wavered while I watched her allow her supporters to say what they wanted, but the people they insulted had no right to be upset…For while (and I have still followed her blog, no judgment, reading what was going on in her life) but to here her go one today about some POC privilege being used against well meaning white folks…c’mon, what kinda crap is that? Now the Poor white writers are being oppressed?

Silence is not about having complete power over someone to physical force their compliance, but about treating them as the uneducated, the unworthy, the unreasonable, in itself is a form of urging those are you to shut them out as beneath being recognized as having a voice…that is also being silenced.

I'm glad you're going to keep on talking. Silence is no the answer, and I'm a little shocked that anyone would think that way. Admittedly, I haven't had the mental capacity to sift through all the drama-it's been a pretty hard couple of months, and I would like to read everyone's posts when I can really sit down, think, and learn from them-but I'm still shocked. I hope other people refuse to be silenced, as well.

I second the suggestion. I don't think we can thank her enough for her tireless efforts in compiling imformation as she does.

(Even an author I disagree vehemently with can at least be a pointer to what not to do, you know?)

Yes, This! What we want is good POC positive spec fic. We can get that in discussion about culture, and cultural appropriation, and learned from our mistakes as writers, and the mistakes of other writers. Especially, gwailowrite, for people like you and me, who write multicultural fiction.

I'm staying out of the overall debate here because I don't know enough to say anything.

However, I will say that there are some authors/musicians/actors who's politics, opinions, etc I do not agree with - but I greatly enjoy them in their chosen profession. In fact, there is one author I know personally - and we very much dislike each other. Yet I can't wait for her next book because I love what she writes.

ETA - what I'm trying to say is that I judge the work on its own merit, completely separate from the creator and their personal opinions.



Edited at 2009-03-06 02:48 pm (UTC)

Whereas I decided to stop reading Card, even when I do like the book, because it's mathematically impossible for me to read every piece of quality SF in my lifetime; and "I don't want to support someone whose views and behavior I find repugnant"[1] is as good a criteria as any to whittle that list down to something manageable.

Which is not to say that I have taken such a step regarding Bear. But I can certainly understand and respect why others would.

[1] To say nothing of the far more compelling, "I don't want to support someone who actively works to oppress me."

Edited at 2009-03-06 07:36 pm (UTC)

I agree with you here--even though I still harbor fondness for Bear that doesn't mean I have any sympathy for the blatant fuckwittery of Shetterly and the stupidity Bull displayed in some of her comments.

I'm impressed that you stuck it out in her journal as long as you did. She was dismissive enough earlier that I got really tired of reading her victimized defensive anger posts. In retrospect, that may have been a bit of a mistake, since the brouhaha has so expanded since and I missed a lot of it for not paying attention.

Also, it's nice to meet you.

Yes!

Came here from metafandom - and though I don't know how much I should really be involved in this debate I wanted to say that I admire you for this post. :)

Reading your posts on this sorry mess of a situation is making me want to read your books very much. :) I'm very glad that you are strong and brave enough to not let them silence you; I'm so sorry that you have to be, in order to make your voice heard.

The best thing about all this for me personally is that I've found wonderful journals of people who I would very much like to talk to. I'm thankful for that.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I followed your link to Ms. Bear's post and this in particular has me really angry:

"In internet debates of this sort, at least against well-meaning white folk who really do want to help, the persons of color do have privilege. It is not systemic, like white privilege, and it is not as toxic as white privilege. "

Ignoring the way "well-meaning white folk" makes me cringe and think of Rudyard Kipling, is she really saying that POC are privileged because in discussions of race, they can make nice white liberals feel bad? The ways in which that's fucked up are numerous and profound and yeah, make me really angry.

Also, thank you for friending me back, and I'm looking forward to reading your books :)